Interview 3 - The Human Being
JLP: Hello hello good afternoon good evening
O World Project: Hello, Good afternoon here, good evening there.
JLP: Good afternoon then.Thank you truly for this new opportunity.There aren't very many places where we can get into such depth, so I truly want to think big huge difference you are making. Thank you very much.
O World Project: No, thank you for granting us this time. We have been waiting anxiously.
JLP: Okay, I sincerely think we can talk about powerful things that are generally not talked about. So I leave that possibility open. Onward. Gracias.
O World Project: Let me tell him what you just said. And another thing: if you see me looking down it's because I'm making notes to be able to translate to him.I have to write everything down to be able to do the translation….
JLP: Fantastic. I can generally understand questions or what he says, but translate anyways just to be sure. Very good, onward.
O World Project: Let’s start with a question and see where it takes us. our first question refers to the aspects that make up that human psyche. What are those elements? For example, intellect emotion, spirituality. Are there more?
JLP: What a great question! Is no teaching that has not touched on this topic, and as you mentioned before, it reached the Western world badly articulated. There is not one teaching that has not touched on this topic. The problem is as we usually receive it, It is–I will use a word a little strong but true–it's absolutely useless. It’s intellectual information that, unless we go through the journey of initiation... it's utterly useless.
If we're told that the bodies are 4, 7, 11… it’s all the same. It's intellectual information, one thing is the same as the other… they give you some names and characteristics, and this is not how I learned it, first from the sacred writings and later from the people who taught me to use these bodies. They aren’t just names. It's a whole logic about which we can talk if you want.
That is how we find it in the original sacred scriptures that is how they manage it and the original cultures. It is important to understand that there are points in common between different initiations that never knew of each other, and yet they shared the same information.
That shared information agrees basically that the different aspects of the human being are found in seven main bodies, 3 additional bodies which are much harder to access, and on superior body. And that is a number - seven plus three plus one - that is found the different initiations, such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Kabbala, and aboriginal cultures. They always coincide in the information, which implies something awesome. It’s no insignificant matter that cultures which are so different from each other agree that the constitution of what we call the ‘human being’ is: seven bodies, three bodies, and one body.
At the same time, these initial seven bodies show a subdivision fundamental to the understanding of this logic: they are subdivided into four and three - four inferior ones and three that are slightly more elevated. I insist, if we don’t understand the logic for which this is taught, it is useless to learn it. But it is fundamental, deeply important, that humanity learn this, and at this time when, as we spoke earlier, we find an abundance of the element which feed the first seven of these eleven bodies.
The basic names of these seven bodies … I will use a kind of combination between what is taught by Hinduism and Buddhism … even though they have other names in other cultures. The Q’eros, of which we spoke last time, also talk of the different components, and they coincide though the names change. Perhaps the ones that reached the Occident most easily… some have no translation, we have to use the Sanskrit terms; others have become daily terms:
The physical body, the ethereal body, the astral body, the mental body and the causal body. There we have 4 bases that make up a sort of square, and superimposed on the top side is the fifth body. That is, the fourth and fifth bodies share the top side of the square, I don’t know if I’m being clear. There we have four, and a hidden fifth body. And then on top are drawn, like two hands in prayer, the other two bodies. This constitutes the seven principal bodies.
8:59
There we have seven: physical, ethereal, astral.. the one which acts as a bridge is the mental body, and is very important; so important in fact, that it is a double body, with the causal body - that is what it’s called.
I’m using the Spanish terms and you can translate them. The other ones don’t have Spanish names: inferiors manas, superior manas, buddhi and atman. We will look at them again because they’re extremely important. I don’t know if you’d like summarize at this point, the names at least: physical, ethereal, astral, mental, causal, inferior manas, superior manas, buddhi, and atman. This is a combination of what’s reached us from Hinduism and Buddhism, which are the principal names
9:45
We also find them in the Kabbala, I don’t know if you want the names, but they’re also there. Only in the Kabbala they begin with the more subtle names. From a realm corresponding to the principal bodies, with the most luminosity and consciousness called el Ein (which is turn has three layers: Ein, Ein sof, Ein sof Aur which are levels of luminosity from most to least resplendent)… from which emanate the eleven states: Kether, Hokhmah, Binah, Nezah, Gemurah, Tifaret, Heserd, Hod, Yesod, Malkut which is the physical body.
10:30
I give you all the names simply so it’s clear that all cultures speak of this, with different names, but the logic is the same. I don’t know you’d like to summarize this.
11:20
Atman. [The true self of an individual beyond identification with phenomena, the essence of an individual.] Atma is more familiar in the Occident, but Atma is who incarnates in the Atman plane.
Atman is the plane one lives on in that state of Atma. Good. Once we have these names, as I said, in the Kabbala, Hinduism, in aboriginal cultures, in Buddhism.
Ok. Let me interrupt you; we have a question.
11:59
Ok. That’s the issue. There’s the logic I spoke about. What’s the use of all this? Good. Perhaps the most direct way to explain this… there are three images that helped me a lot when I studied this topic in the different writings. One of them is the most complicated and advanced one, we can leave it until the end if there is interest, and it’s the one that will teach you the most, but the other two are very good and very helpful.
13:05
What is the principal motive for lighting a candle? We can say: the candle corresponds to the elements I just mentioned. The four sides are the wax body itself, and the upper triangle is the flame. Why do light a candle? To illuminate our daily life. But we can light a candle only from our daily lives. I want to make this very clear. This is what opened my mind when I understood it this way, in Hinduism. This is the logic of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. This is the logic of the Ohm Tat Sat in India. We all want the light ‘turned on’. But the light depends on the candle, on the wax and the wick. We all want the light on, but the lights depends on there being good wax and a good wick, and friction to create a spark and a flame. While we all want the light, the light wants us to create the right conditions so that light can enter us, literally.
14:15
When you think about it this way, you can understand it. This is a summary of the Upanishads; It’s more elevated than what one learns in Hinduism. The order is: Puranas, Vedas, Upanishads.
Upanishads: Shad means ‘radiance’, ‘a light that’s lit’… when we talk about Shambala, Upanishads… that’s the meaning. And teaches exactly that: a logic to ignite our higher bodies. But that doesn’t mean it can be done from within the higher bodies. I cannot light a candle if the physical aspects of the candle are not well built. Would you like translate that and then we’ll look at the logic.
16:00
Would you like to go one.
Yes, we’re just getting started.
This is a great image to think about it at first. It helps to think about the logic of merely intellectual information. If we think about the point in the candle where the wick emerges we can understand the image we spoke of before, because at that point there are two things superimposed: the upper limit of the wax and the wick. The same thing is true in Hinduism with the symbol that shows that solid aspects and the subtle aspects.
16:41
Now good. The concept that we have about ‘what is a person’ in each culture and each paradigm, can be clearly defined with what we’ve been talking about. Depending on which of these bodies, aspects, doorways into the universe, all are different names… steps of magic…like The Method of Magic we have talked about here… depending on how many of these we are conscious of in our lives, our concept of what a human being is and of our life will be completely different.
17:17
This is key. We Westerners, created in paradigms such as the Science paradigm … this is terrible … have known for a scant century that what we call a ‘human being’ is not only - out of all this we’ve discussed - what we call the physical body. This is awful. Until only hundred years ago, our paradigmatic conception of a person and human being, was what in the candle would only be the wax, the physical body. Everything else we believed belonged to divine, celestial, angelic realms, and did not understand it as part of the human being.
Understanding this, and understanding our very limited conception of man and of life from the outset is the same thing, and it opens our minds to understand what we what mean when we talk about man.
18:12
Don't know if you would like to translate that.
So, did you say this constitutes our physical part?
Yes. That is, what we understand as a Human being, until 100 years ago, until we began to understand radioactivity, the concept of energy bodies surrounding us, the idea that our awareness is not in our brain… as I said, until I hundred years ago, the beginning of the 1900s, what we understood to be the Human being, out of the 11 bodies I just mentioned, was the most ordinary base, and that is what we thought was man.
We believed the others were not part of each of us, as if they belonged to other worlds, rather than being parts of our constitution as humans.
19:40
The paradigms we call the ‘old era’. It’s still what people think. It’s like thinking that because we don’t use the left arm, it’s not considered a part of our body. The same is true for the astral body, the mental body … we don’t think them parts of our body. We think they belong to other worlds. When we think that, we are thrust out of the universe, and we become no different from a stone. We only have a physical body, and some evasive ethereal body which we think belongs to another world, and that we don’t inhabit in this world. Rather, we leave it for some time after we die.
20:41
Let’s think about this as they think in India, which is brilliant and very clear, and not only there: India, Kabbala, Buddhism, aboriginal cultures, all share a logic. In India they think about and teach this which is called a human being, from a realm called Purusha. We again find the term “sha”. Purusha is what we might call the “kingdom of the gods”. But this is interesting: the Upanishads explain that, in the realm of Purusha they to be taught from here, something that they can’t learn themselves. See how the story is reversed? We always think that humans ask favours of the Gods. They start from a completely different conception. They require a favour from us who can incarnate. And they give back to those who offer them service.
21:40
From the outset it gives a central role in the universe … from being the one asking to one who is responsible for helping the Gods. The Gods depend on what humans experience. What is that experience? When we understand it we’ll understand this whole logic. This is Purusha.
22:36
Purusha is integrated, of all these bodies, by Superior Manas, Buddha and Atma, to put some order to things. Purusha is Superior Manas, Buddha and Atma. If you want, we can see the names in other mythologies, like Ketzer, Ein, Sof in the Kabbala. In the aborigines, this is fundamental, it’s the world of Kausai PUri , we’ll see it later, and that world of Causai Puri is moved (affected) from here … It’s fundamental we understand this because the logic coincides, though it is unlike what we assume in religion, where we believe that we depend on subtle realms. There is a wonderful interdependence that gives us a place and a logic.
23:21
Very good. The physical world, the ethereal world, and the astral world, are what we call ‘subrogate worlds’. They’re also called - though I don’t want to keep throwing out terms - worlds of Rupa; Rupa means ‘worlds with generated form, solid form… we believe things are according to their form’. Those three worlds have minimum contact with what is the mental world, and there is our square. We move, in our daily lives, between the physical, the ethereal, and the astral world. If you want it made easier: astral world = the world of sleep, put simply, where the astral world is clearly at its peak. Physical world = the world of our daily lives; and the ethereal world is the bridge between both.
24:15
Today, fortunately, we are capable of photographing the ethereal world, even part of our aura … the aura enters the astral world, the ethereal is the bridge between the bodies, and the physical body is what we generally believe is the entirety of the human being. OK. Those three bodies are conditioned. And we believe our lives are limited to that. Those three bodies are dependent, they are consequence [effect], not cause. But we also can’t change them from the higher realms, from the realm of Purusha, because Purusha needs us to make the changes.
24:56
So what’s our place in the universe? That is, we can’t make the changes from below, but neither can we make the changes from above. From where can we make the changes? From that place that unites above and below. Everyone knows the famous phrase from the Kybalion, “As above, so below.” Ok, here the ‘how’ [as] is very important. How is it above and below? There is a bridge, which like every bridge, unites two places, if you cross it. Or it can separate two places if you don’t cross it. That bridge is the key. And that bridge is the one we know least about in the Occident. It’s called the Mental body.
25:36
That’s why I said, it’s a bridging body. It works at the same time with the world of Rupa, the world of form, our daily world, and the world of Arupa, without form. He who understands the logic of the mental world, will find order in all other logics. We will see it now.
27:06
In Toltec philosophy, the known, the unknown, and the unknowable?
Yes. That corresponds to quadrants in a logic that are not Toltec; here it is. The Unknowable, the Known, and the Knowable, though it’s contingent, or conditional. But you see there is an additional quadrant, they are four. They’re not three. And this logic, which absolutely actual, modern, and contemporary, strives to understand the same: a dynamic between four bodies, and it’s at the junction between those bodies that is the connection to the higher bodies. So, the real answer is, that is a way in to the subject.
He was studying… we’ve been studying
28:01
Very good. … Sorry. Should I go on?
Do you have more on this subject?
Everything! I want to make this logic clear, its use and usefulness in our lives. If not, they’re just names and it means nothing.
28:56
Perfect. Look at what happens when someone wishes to start on a journey. Well, after the first 14 years of reading so much, the next part of the journey… courses… seminars… before all the travelling… and I know this well from my own experience and from others’. Without noticing, you become anchored, fixed, in one of those lower worlds. There are people, for example, who believe the path is the path of diets, and make the diet the centre of their lives. That is placing the physical world at the centre; although they might use a spiritual excuse, they remained fixed. The day they die, there won’t be a physical body that can be helped by means of a diet. What they learned from the diet is useful only if transcended. But they place the diet at the centre of their lives.
29:49
Others, begin with the energy: the astral world, the energetic world… they want to learn how to activate the chakras. Both approaches, if they aren’t part of a journey, end in losing oneself. Like Buddha after two years with the Anyacines .. the ones who isolate themselves to create physical worlds in the astral realm. He said he had lost seven years.
30:15
What is difficult to achieve, and where all teachings point, is that the revolution must occur from within the world we don’t want to fuss with - the mental world. Initiation begins in the mental world, and from there radiates differently to the other worlds. Look at how direct this is. If we want to start from the physical world, or the astral world, we easily get lost. And the changes we can effect are minimal. And how do we know they are minimal? Because we keep on repeating the same patterns, across generations, the same behaviours, the same problems.
30:56
This changes completely when we understand that the first phase of the warrior’s journey - the magician’s journey (warrior, merchant, priest and magician), is a journey where we must first deal with mental conditioning. This mental conditioning is what can open these closed doors against which you bounce, which in terms of Shambala, Purusha, and Upanishad of which we spoke before, means you will have to re-incarnate. You have not transcended the bridge of your mental conditioning. The Bardo Thodol is fantastic for this; it shows this with utter clarity. Everything changes from incarnation to incarnation - you changed sex, time, social status, family situation, race … everything except your mind.
31:50
There is the mental body. You repeated… we all think that if life changed, if our family changed, if our economic position changed, if your partner changed … ok. Here is where this ‘macro scale’ we just spoke of is helpful. Look, you’ve changed everything from one incarnation to the next, except the one thing you needed to change, and for which you specifically incarnated. You didn’t, therefore you bounce, and return to the physical, ethereal and astral world.
32:18
That depends on whether we cross the bridge or not. That bridge lies in the mental body. Slowly we begin to focus on that. I don’t know if you’d like to translate.
33:32
So what do we do with the mental body, and why is it useful? That is the question. Understand that throughout incarnations we have changed everything about the physical body; we have hugely changed the energetic body - the energy we possessed living in the jungle is very different from that we possess in the city. Our energy is not the same with the diet from culture to another in a different incarnation. However, any change that we made in terms of our energetic or physical ability, did not produce the change - I’m going to put it in a mystical way like the Upanishads do - the change that the universe requires of us.
34:12
That change for which Purusha needs us. Always that wonderful Indian logic which says that if you help the Gods, the Gods will help you. The Gods helping you means Magic in your life. We have to understand this. The mental body is that hard bridge to cross, as the Bardo Thodol shows, from incarnation to incarnation. That bridge can’t be crossed by improving either the physical or the energetic. The best proof is in the Bardo Thodol itself. The Lamas themselves have very refined energies; we assume they can easily control their physical body; but the re-incarnation average of a Lama is 120 re-incarnations.
34:56
That is, no matter how refined the energy or the physical body, the universe is none the wise; they still have no access to higher universal realms. Where is the key? We understand this in the initiation - the inner journey or warrior’s journey from the outset deals with the mental world. If I in Western world want to deal with my mental world, what do I turn to? Psychology. Then I am lost - I say this as a Psychoanalyst - lost for ever. Because what we know in the West of the mental world, is barely a part of the unconscious, and is lost as we try to change our behaviour believing that in doing so we are altering the mental world.
35:38
And behaviour is a function of the mental world, not a cause. I can’t touch the mental world changing behaviours. Ok. Understand that the mental world is that world we are not conscious of, or as in the Toltec philosophy, the Unknown. And to gain awareness of that world immediately accesses what? Let’s remember: physical, ethereal, astral, mental, and superimposed on it, the causal body. What does this mean? We Cause. We cause what we were not able to cause before. From the mental body. This is brilliantly useful, a word that seemed foreign til now.
36:29
If I can achieve a change in my mental body, I can change what I cause. Why? Because what I cause will generate at the same time, that from my mind two universes are ordered. The universe where subtle energies generate matter… look… give me a few seconds to see if it’s here… here! Let’s not lose sight of this. This very thing is what the Inca conception shows. This is a scheme of the Incan Cosmovision. We can see the same thing: one world, another world. World of Rupa and world of Arupa. What do we see? A world in which something in the middle can unite or separate. This cosmic egg is the key, which is the same as the common border, though here it is in a vertical space rather than horizontal. It’s an egg which is difficult to traverse, but at the same time acts as a conduit for the superior energies. But what is the problem. Here they dissipate and they do not reach man.
37:35
They return to the universe. Man remains below and this remains above; they remain separated. This is a map; here are the 11 steps of Magic. I have given seminars on this which shows the 11 steps of Magic. This, in the Incan cosmovision, shows the same thing we were speaking of. What does it show? When we access this world, the world of Cause, which they call Yachai… Yachai means ‘having gained the knowledge to create the world’. It’s the world of Huiracocha - the one who creates a different world with his teaching. Ok. When I access this world, the world from whence I cause a difference, what happens? I can access it from Yachai - my teachings - remember: the teachings that allow you to create what you want. The teaching about the Mental world. What I learn and achieve through these teachings cause that the refined energies (which come from the Inferior and Superior Manas) unite with my daily life and fill my Colca. What is Colca? This here. A deposit. For whatever I want.
38:52
I caused, from my mental world, that refined energies impregnate my daily life with whatever I want. The journey depends on this step. Here we have energies, and here we have energies. My energies will unite with refined energies according to this step which corresponds to what we located earlier. You can see superimposed two levels or energy. This is like the mental world and the causal world.
Understand that our daily world is brought about by what we do with our mind, and that which we do with our mind orders superior energies which fall and traverse our mind and fill our daily life (here is our daily life: earth with a rainbow, animals, plants, stones, the Colca, which is whatever you want in your life, fill these deposits with whatever you want - money, health, food …) This depends on this game. This right here is our mental body.
40:00
When you use the word ‘order’, which sense are you using it it? To order someone or something?
You can’t separate one from the other. That’s great. That’s great. When I produce order within me, I can order the universe, and the universe orders (puts in place) everything, orders the energies to bring about the order which I gave it. That, precisely, is what Abracadabra is. “I generate reality by speaking.” I order. I order. This is the great difference with any religion. In the religions, you ask; the Magician doesn’t ask. The Magician orders. But he can’t order outwardly if there is dis-order within. That’s where the mental body comes into play.
40:58
Now, before another step. What does this scheme show? The same as the images we were looking at before. There is something that can unite or separate. To understand this, we need the second of the three images. One is the candle; now to understand this, we look at the next image. And then the third, which is the most powerful of the three… Do you want to relate this?
Superior energies, inferior energies - that’s our astral body; this is the world of superior and inferior Manas, Buddha and Atma. The uniting of our astral world and our superior Manas - or their separation - depend on what happens in the middle, with our mental body. And it’s the one we know least about in the West.
42:52
Is this how we help the Gods? By transforming dense energies into subtle energies? Is that why the Gods need us?
43:09
That, to the Q’eros, is called Hucha Mikuy . It means “I ingest Hucha (dense) energy and transform it into subtle energy”. The answer is Yes. But that happens only at an energetic level. What the universe requires of us is not limited to the energetic. That, actually, it can do without us. If we help, then evolution includes us. We’re not here only to transform dense energies into subtle, although if we help in that then our lives can benefit from the subtle energies. Why? Because the universe has its own system, which is the third of the three images I mentioned (we’ll be looking at the second one), which teaches how the universe itself refines the energies. And if you don’t refine yourself … natural selection: you remain in the dense planes.
44:01
So, the answer is yes, but it’s only a point of entry. Why? Because something is missing. What is it that the different universal planes can’t bring about unless something else does it? The Union of Matter with Consciousness. That is what ignites our spark. That’s what in India is the famous Trimurti. What is Trimurti? Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, in that order. Shiva, simply put, is Matter; Brahma is superior Manas, Budhi and Atma. And Vishnu … if you look at the image of Trimurti, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva sitting together, what do you see? Shiva is very different from Vishnu, the intermediary. Shiva does has no lit candle around its head. Vishnu is the one that has a lit candle on its head. And Brahma is pure fire.
45:11
What does this mean? If we succeed in sparking the energy in our matter, our daily lives, which otherwise is not lit … what is the energy which we lack in our daily lives? Our consciousness lit up. Which creates precisely, that which the Greeks called Agape. What is it? What Christ taught, which the church translated as Love. We ignite ourselves. Igniting matter transforms a state of Shiva to one of Vishnu. And Brahma never communicates with Vishna, only with Vishnu. That means Brahma doesn’t communicate with you if you move only at the level of matter.
45:55
The superior planes - Inferior and superior Manas, Budhi and Atman - have nothing to do with the un-gnited man; they need man to be “lit-up”. Which path ignites us? The mental body. That mental body is easy to see in another of these images - one was the square with the triangle on top. The second image, much more simple, is that of the layers of an onion… if we think of the different bodies as the layers of an onion. This is very good because from the outset it makes us conscious of the unity. It’s not that the astral world is somewhere, and the mental world is somewhere else… the gods elsewhere … the angels… Your body - that which you mean when you say “you”, the human being, the person, encompasses a layer in each of those worlds.
46:44
And your awareness is what needs to connect them. That’s what the universe lacks - that matter has an awareness of the laws that move it. That is Shiva - matter without awareness. When matter begins to acquire that awareness, it begins to light up, and becomes Vishnu. When it is lit up, it can communicate with the superior Manas. That is the Causal body. To put some order: the inferior bodies: physical, ethereal and astral, on the side of Shiva; the Mental body par excellence: Vishnu; and Manas, inferior and superior, Budhi and Atman, on the side of Brahma. What is our function? To unite it all. To unite matter with awareness - that is Vishnu in India. The same as Shiva, he has matter, is incarnate. But like Brahma, it ignites within himself at the mental level (and we will look at this topic) what only Vishnu ignites, and that which man, in his daily life of moving within matter, and who only looks to resolve things within this world as generated by the paradigm of the old era, doesn’t even suspect it exists.
47:55
That energy, and matter. Uniting matter with awareness is what the gods ask of us. Gods have consciousness, but matter is completely inaccessible to them in their world. Why? Because they don’t need it in their world, but the Universe does. That’s what Purusha teaches us. So they require that somebody unite matter with consciousness. That’s why you’re here, that’s why you’re here, that’s why I’m here. To imbue matter with consciousness.
49:30
To say it in one sentence… What do the Gods want from us? That we light the candle. That we unite matter with that spark. We can live our whole lives with the candle out, that is our every day life as we understand it. Wanting to resolve, to achieve, with physical effort, that doesn’t go beyond the physical - ethereal - astral. Or making a change at that point where the candle can be lit. That's where initiation begins: lighting the candle. That’s what we’re after.
50:09
What does lighting the candle mean? Many things all at once. The key lies in understanding that the reason the Gods need our help is that they live in a world of pure consciousness, and we humans live in a world of pure matter. To achieve this bridge is the reason why they created ‘terminals’ in the universe called ‘us’. This puts us in a very clear place and gives meaning to life, and allows us to understand why we keep bouncing and reincarnating until we acquire a certain glow, which every culture mentions. Agape for the Greeks, Kausai for the Q’eros; that which causes Shiva to become Vishnu when it’s ignited.
50:53
We can easily say, there are times in our lives when “I feel lit-up”. I acquire a mental possibility… what changed? I ate the same as yesterday, but today I feel fired up… or the other way around… yesterday I felt so good and today I feel as always again. It’s not just diet. Say I get an energetic treatment … I get my aura cleaned, my chakras… people return home and everything is still the same. It does not go beyond the physical or the energetic; neither the psychological as we understand it. But suddenly, say, I give you some awesome news… you get fired up.
51:33
Where did the change take place? In the mental realm. We can say there is something there that produced the spark. Initiation means producing that spark. And to that end, teachers looks for the most certain path, though it’s the most annoying for the world of matter: friction (51:53). If I rub two stones, I will surely get a spark. And that’s the very thing we avoid in our daily lives. Friction with issues that force us to generate the spark.
52:08
That’s human conflict
Exactly! But understand that conflict is the solution. Buddha went looking for conflict; he sought out conflict with his father when he said, “I will not be the prince you want me to be”. Christ sought out conflict when he said to the Hebrews: “no matter how comfortable we here, and that no one is after us, we cannot stay slaves to Rome; we must be faithful to Yahweh.” So understand, they sought out the spark to ignite themselves. That’s the same thing a teacher does for you in any culture, and I’ve been there and can vouch for it. The look for conflict in you. “Don’t tell me if it rains in the jungle you will not light a fire… go light it even though it’s raining.” “I can’t!” With “matter” I can’t.
52:50
So if I go beyond what I understand to be the limits of my physical and ethereal worlds, and what I think I can affect at an energetic level, I move beyond my mental limits. Good. Now we’re back to our map. What does this map tell us? Here is the key. The layers of an onion are perfect for understanding this. Why? It lends us unity consciousness… it allows us to understand that what we call the human being is made up of absolutely universal bodies, which we can’t access them. It’s like saying, your home has wonderful, huge attic, full of light, but you can’t reach it because the ladder is broken. Another things is believing that Gods dwell up there and that it’s not part of your home. The onion is perfect that way. It helps us understand that there is a physical body, but also an ethereal body, an astral body, a mental body, and there are bodies beyond what we can see in our daily lives, just like the onion.
53:55
Ok. That wonderful image is very useful because to access the bodies I have to peel off the layers of the onion… but peeling from the inside. That’s the big difference. That is what this shows. Look at the clue here… this is huge, it’s beautiful. That’s why this map of the Pachakutiyamki (54:16) shows the complete Shamanic cosmovision; the Toltecs, the Andean… that is, not just Inca, but all Andean cultures. What does it show? This world holds a clue. What is it? The mental world which joins the physical with the higher universal energies holds the key. What is it? You can see clearly there. It must be empty. See, it’s an empty conduit. It must become an empty conduit. And what’s the problem? Our minds are full. Now we can begin to understand the logic of initiation, which strives to empty the mind. It brings you to a state of consciousness where you become aware that your mind is full of things that are not you.
55:09
It reminds me of the Toltec cosmovision and the exercises that Juan Matus teaches Carlos Castaneda to silence the mind.
55:25
“Stopping the world” they call it. Stopping the world is that silence. Where did that invite us? The the path of the warrior. And what warrior, against which conditioning? Physical? Energetic? Mental! Everything falls into place. You are understanding perfectly. See? From there, the initiation falls into place because the universe falls into place. Now we can get into that.
56:47
Very good. We were getting there with the third image; you are getting ahead of yourselves.
57:00
The answer to that is the third image. You’re faster; I’m going slower, because I’m going a step at a time, but we’re getting there, I promise. If I don’t answer it, please let me know. For the moment we must understand that we are required to generate something we don’t know how to generate. And unfortunately, when we try, we got lost in the practices which, at most… now what was it? When you learn meditation, if they are honest they tell you “perhaps in 12 years you might achieve to empty your mind for one minute.” Thank you very much! If that’s the path…. one minute of mental silence in 12 years more or less, beginning with a practice of [Tan ten and Zan zen] to generate at the end of an 11-year cycle, in the 12th year, one minute of mental silence. It makes no sense to incarnate for that.
57:57
Emptying the mind…. even though it’s true that those who lived in the temples, ate but a grain of rice a day, had their whole incarnations to do this in the old era, and could do it by means of meditative and contemplative techniques … we - you, me, and everyone listening to this - we have decided to incarnate in a time when it’s not about going to the temple or the mountain, to empty the mind. We must learn to empty the mind in what we do daily, and that is the challenge of the new era. Plasma accelerates it all. Accelerates and unifies, and if I think I will empty my mind for a minute in the next 12 years, even with 15 minutes of daily meditation, the rest of the day my worlds are once again fragmented, which is what happens to everyone.
58:49
What are we talking about when we say ‘empty the mind’? We are speaking of the very thing which makes up the concept of ‘mind’, what you just asked about. Now we can look at the third image. This third image is the key to the universe, and this is not hyperbole. There is even agreement in the science that this image is indeed to the key to the universe. Given that it is an air-tight image, I don’t know how far you want to go with it here, but at the very least we can introduce it. This third image shows us what working with the mind is all about, the concept of the mind. This third image show us how these worlds integrate or why they remain separated.
59:39
Instead of a square with the three worlds above, or instead of superimposed layers, like an onion, the dynamic of the system is shown by the topological figure called the Torus or Toroid. The Torus is the image that we have used since the beginning in initiation. The symbol of initiation is a unfolded Torus, a toroid drawn in two dimensions.
What is the Torus? All of the bodies I mentioned, all together in one dynamic. And there’s the key. A Torus … Let’s see… for those unclear about what a toroid is: an energy field, in the shape of an apple cut in half, it has that shape. And where is the valuable part? Where it’s empty, in the centre. There’s where the seed is, which will allow me to Cause [bring about] the body I want, the world I want, the health I want, the life… the seed is there. Now good.
1:00: 48
A Torus which sends energy from one extreme to the other, attracting everything that is around it. Science calls it a Black Hole. There is also a White Hole, which is less known and receives less press, but it exists too, on the other side of the vortex. They attract - Cause - whatever I want from the Physical world and the Astral world (night and day), as long as - and here’s the key - the base of the Torus must be…? Empty. And we have a tendency to create a life which, at the base of the Torus, is full of dense thoughts. In that case, the Torus breaks down and doesn’t function. To understand it in this way makes it perfectly clear.
1:01:44
That is the mind? The mind… and it’s useful to remember this concept… Mind, etymologically, is a Greek word, and it’s brilliant. Mind, and the concept of a Mental body, means “goal” or “aim”. It depends on the goal or aim you set for yourself. If your aim is subject to the prevailing paradigms which tells you what is possible and what isn’t, you block the Torus. You must un-block the Torus; generating this void allows the energies to flow, and these circulating energies require that your mind be empty. Now, emptying your mind does not mean sitting in front of a candle chanting Ohm… again, that is all very good for the one wanting to dedicate his life to the temple. But we incarnated into a normal life, does that then mean we can’t awaken?
1:02:39
The point of incarnation is not that. Buddha didn’t do it, Christ didn’t do it, neither did Sankhara nor Milarepa; actually Milarepa did, but he abandoned it in the end. Anyway, I want you to understand that none of the initiates who have become our models understood that the final aim of life is to do meditation or contemplation to empty the mind. They learned that emptying the mind is much more difficult than what you can achieve within a certain time of practice. It is, in fact, unblocking your goals. What Matus, for example, requires of Castaneda. “What do you mean you can’t this or that and you want to be a warrior”. I must enter into the internal conflict that forces me to change my goals, change my mind. That is emptying the mind.
1:03:28
What is it? Getting rid of mental conditioning which tells me my goals must be finding a good job, a good career, good health, good family, and that’s it, that’s my life. That’s the base, the stage; what are the goals above that? Changing goals, and especially finding Impossible goals - Impossible - is emptying the mind. Because to accept a goal I previously believed to be impossible, I first must empty myself of conditionings in regards to my mind - my goal. That, Christ taught as the very final exercise; we can talk about that later if you want. The last exercise Christ taught his disciples was that.
1:04:21
Castaneda calls it, among others, “Stalking” or “not-doing”… changing your goals, or doing something you’re not used to.
1:04:30
Very good. That’s what the Chinese, in Taoism, call Gu Wei. Gu means three things: ‘absolute, totality’, ‘empty’ (and once again it’s the same concept), and it also means ‘negation’. Wei means ‘action’ or ‘not-acting’. But you understand that ‘not acting’ does not mean sitting idle, and in India it’s called Akarma. Karma, we all know the simplest translation, it’s ‘action’. A-, like in the Latin languages, is ‘without’ or ‘the negation of’. But what does ‘not acting’ mean? Gandhi followed Akarma, because he learned it from his teacher Vinoba, and from the Baghavad Gita. Did Gandhi do nothing? Did he sit under a tree and waited? No. “Not-acting” means letting the universe act on your behalf, but you must order it first. And that order must be established in your mind first. That’s what ‘not-acting’ is.
1:05:39
Please, don’t be mistaken. I teach the 4 techniques of ‘non-action’ when I teach Initiation, we can look at them at some point. I show how Christ used those techniques; we can see them in the Gospels, the Apocrypha, the Dead Sea manuscripts… he always use one of these techniques. So did Gandhi, and freed India. And can you say that Gandhi did ‘nothing’ in his ‘non-action’? He freed India! But from whence did he do it? From ‘non-action’. What did that non-action do? Emptied the mind! What was the first thing Gandhi did? He emptied his mind. Why? With diets? No. He didn’t achieve it with diets. In fact, he resorted to fasting when he things weren’t working for him. Emptied the mind how? He emptied it of paradigms. “We don’t need the English” he told everyone, literally. “And since we don’t need the English,” he said, “it’s possible to live without them…” See? He began changing their minds with a total conviction. This place is the base of the Torus. The base of the Torus is our mental body.
1:06:43
Which will join with the superior Manas, and which will join to the superior energies, and together will generate whatever I put there. Or, if it is blocked, that Torus will stop and Magic will stop. The Torus is like the candle we spoke of before. What is required for the candle to burn? Wax. But there must be an empty hole within the wax. Without an empty whole I can’t put a wick in it. A lit candle follows the same logic as the Torus. It requires an empty channel to connect the inferior and superior. That empty channel is what we are talking about.
1:07:17
The mental body functions when it’s ‘filled by the wick’, but it must be emptied first. That is what we learn in Magic. And we learn it in Eleven steps, each of which brings you awareness of the eleven bodies. In fact, we generate reality with the same logic that moves the Torus. I don't know if you’d like to translate a summary of this discussion about the Torus… the relationship between the wick and the base, what it means to empty the mind, and what mind itself means.
1:08:54
Very good. This, which is emptying the mind, is key. As we said, it’s what connects it all. In Magic, we understand that emptying that mind is produces the spark. It brings you to that place where, suddenly, what you thought was impossible is possible now. You have been emptied of a conditioning; you have emptied your mind of a paradigm. Why is it so important to achieve that? Exactly what we are looking what. In the Torus we find the connection between the energies that belong to the world of Rupa, and the superior energies, when you generate that void.
1:09:29
We are constantly learning to generate that void… … and what do I use to learn? What the Bardo Thodol teaches me to use to free myself from the world of Rupa, the physical world. And what is that? The hole? What hole? This one. When I speak, I must learn to listen for what I must empty from myself. By means of this hole which in fact, connects, and allows me (through what I learn from Magic about the power of the word - Abbracadabbra) to listen to myself and evaluate when what I’m saying is not aligned with my innermost wishes; that is what I need to leave aside, to block, empty myself of.
1:10:19
Once I can leave this aside, I can learn to use it. Once I can leave it aside and it no longer directs me … once I am no longer enslaved to the enemy, to the giant who is more powerful than I, then, as in the myths, i can get on its back and make him do my bidding. That is that world we have no awareness of, which begins to function in ‘non-action’ precisely because I make it act on my behalf. This follows certain laws, certain logic. And that logic, as the Bardo Thodol states, is achieved through “Liberation by Audition”, which in fact is the real translation of Bardo Thodol: “Liberation by means of listening”. What do I free myself of? From being trapped in a world of dense energies - the physical, ethereal and astral world. How do I free myself? By listening. Why must I use my hearing to free myself? Because I have to learn to hear when my mind traps me in a cycle that extinguishes my flame.
1:11:19
The cycle to takes me to the world of Shiva, for the Hindis, it smothers me, it leaves me in the world of matter. The more I learn to discern when my mind deviates be means of listening to my words, the more control I gain the world of subtle energies. What for? So that I can maintain the fluidity within the Torus which causes the generation of Magic in our daily lives. Why? Because when the Torus maintains the void at its base, the surrounding energies meet and unite there immediately rise through that void, to re-appear at the other end, re-ordered and re-arranged. What does it require in the middle? To be re-ordered. My order. But if the order I speak is not aligned or deviates from my wish, then what emerges will also deviate.
1:12:08
It will generate a different reality. A basic example: if I believe I won’t find work, and I firmly commit myself to look for work tomorrow, there is mis-alignment there, of which I must empty myself. “Tomorrow I will look for work” means “tomorrow I will NOT find it”. I’m stuck in a paradigm which causes a rift of the energies within my mind. And when I find myself in the superior part of the Torus, where the inferior and superior energies merge and return, they will generate a reality where I don’t find work, because the order I gave was had a deviation.
1:12:45
Deviated how? “I want to *look for* work.” Granted. But see, I didn’t empty my mind of that conditioning. In my mental paradigm, because of my age, my studies, whatever, I don’t believe I will find work … if I don’t empty myself of this conditioning, the universe will keep separated the issues I ordered. But I wasn’t the universe or the Torus that failed. This Torus is the meeting place … hah! I just remembered this… Toronto is Canada’s capital, right? And Toronto is a word which is a clue here. It is the Torus. And it’s an aboriginal language, of the Huron First Nation, where the word comes from. I just remembered that you are interviewing me from Canada. The meaning of Toronto in the Huron language is the key to all this: ‘meeting place’. What we call Torus, was called Toronto. Look at the beauty of this, with what clarity, what precision, something above it all taught us all the same. The English language, the Huron language and the Spanish language meet mysteriously in the same word. That word is Torus (Toro).
1:13:57
Toronto, for the Huron Nation, which is where the word comes from, means ‘meeting place’. And the Torus is that meeting place. The meeting place of the world of superior energies with the world of inferior energies. But for that to happen there must be a void. For the New Age, that void is the lack of borders, and all the concepts that separate us.
1:15:18
Yes, exactly! Like trying to achieve all this with such a superficial exercise of 15 minutes per day.
Every time I speak of the Torus, at some point I remember Canada, Toronto and the Huron language; and don’t forget that the Huron is another Shamanic culture. Now, this is so important, that meeting place, called the ‘emtpy mind’, which is what Purusha requires of us … understand it’s an extraordinary logic. Think of it this way: we are made to incarnate with a full mind so that we can learn to empty it. That’s why, incarnation after incarnation, what is measured is whether you transcended the mental limits of each incarnation. That’s the Bardo Thodol.
1:16:07
What is seen in an incarnation is whether you transcended your mental limits, and those mental limits reincarnate with you; you carry your mental body from incarnation to incarnation. That’s why it’s evident, incarnation after incarnation, whatever has changed in the physical and energetic bodies, we make the same mistakes. I made that same mistakes! Making the same mistakes means what? My mental body remained intact. What does that mean? I did not empty my mind. It’s not a bad joke that we incarnate to learn to empty the mind. We incarnate to learn how to imbue matter with awareness by emptying the mind, because wherever we go in the universe, the only way for us not be trapped by the particular limits of that place, is to learn break out of jail, rather than avoid entering.
1:16:56
So it matters little what culture paradigms we incarnate with, incarnation after incarnation we always re-enact the same issues. What does this mean? We need to learn to rid ourselves of mental conditioning. If you don’t achieve this, it doesn’t matter what you change outwardly, you will keep repeating history. If you were a pirate, and as such you were unfair, then as the president of a bank, you are still unfair; and later on as a family man you continue to be unfair. That is the mental conditioning that we are hear to heal ourselves of. And to achieve this, we need to acquire the awareness that what we believe constitutes are mind, is not real. It is full of something that isn’t really us. That, in India, is the path of Namaste, Namesoata, and Namascar.
1:17:56
Nam means ‘to empty’, the negation of something. No, and then I move on to the sacred, but first I must learn to say no. People who say Namaste, Namaste all the time, are not aware they are speaking of a path which begins by emptying ourselves, negating, Nam, to reach the ‘aste’ which is the sacred part. Without emptying ourselves, we can’t reach further. It follows the same logic. Perhaps as a finale or golden brooch to the topic, we should remember that this is so difficult and so advanced that, when Christ saw … (at year’s end I’m going to Mexico to give a seminar on the Occult teachings of Christ, after the Cross; that is, the teachings of Christ continue after the Cross. We can see it, read it, be witness to it, and learn it). When Ch rist reached the moment of the cross, for the West his work is done. However, that’s where his most important work begins; that’s when he begins to speak of these concepts. We know this because both Paul’s letters and the John’s Apocalypse were written after the Cross, and both mention that Christ spoke of this. He spoke of Agape, of Love … that’s where Christ makes Love fashionable. Up until then Christ hardly ever speaks of love.
1:19:15
This is worth to note. And Christ did not speak of love as we understand it, as a feeling. Christ spoke of love in terms of Agape. And what is Agape? Staying ‘ignited’. It’s a state of being, not a feeling. Good. When the time comes for Christ to part company with the disciples, don’t forget the disciples had not learned anything. Two nights before, he was chastising them for falling asleep, when he had asked them to remain awake while he prayed. “Didn’t you learn anything?”
He was angry. Two weeks before the cross, Christ says literally to the disciples (this is always skipped in church): “How much longer will have to endure them? I can’t stand them any longer!”
You can find this in the Bible! This is in the Bible. People don’t read it, but it’s there! So, Christ had understood that the most important part of his mission was after the cross, and he dissatisfied with his teachings to the disciples. When he went to say goodbye to them after the cross, in the last Chapter in John (the most trustworthy of the Gospels) he resorts to this as a last recourse; he doesn’t know what else to say to them, they have not learned anything he has tried to teach them. Two nights before he’s upset with them and chastises them. Now he says (I will tell you first how the Church put it): “Go and preach repentance in my name.” Christ never used the word ‘repentance’. Christ used the word ‘metanoia’. Meta: Mind. Metanoia is what Christ taught. When he saw that no teaching had been successful, he resorts to metanoia. And he says to them: “Go and preach Metanoia in my name”.
1:21:10
What does Metanoia mean? It’s a Gnostic word; Christ was a Gnostic (not A-gnostic). He taught Gnosis. How do we know this? Because John begins his Gospel with a very clear Gnostic poem. Ok. Gnostic Hindu, in that case. Metanoia is taught within Gnosis. What is metanoia? “New mind”. And what is “new mind”? Emptying the mind! Learning to empty the mind. Learn to empty the mind, so he tells them “go and preach metanoia in my name”. He did not teach them meditative techniques. He tells them to ‘go teach metanoia’. “Go and teach repentance”. And he gives them a great Gnostic clue, which is in the Bible, in the Gospel I just mentioned, but anyone who is not initiated misses it: “in my name.”
Metanoia is marked in one’s name. How you’ve seen it in Castaneda, in Matus, in the Toltecs, and in all the initiatory cultures. How do I tell the universe that I’ve made it a goal to change my mind? How do I give the Universe that order? “I commit myself to a journey wherein I will change my mind, I will empty my mind, I will acquire higher goals (Goal = Meta = Mind).” I change my name. “Go and teach repentance in my name”. The church translated it “…in Christ’s name”. No. Metanoia is an exercise, everything in quotes “repentance in my name.” Understand?
When I change my name I’m telling the world, I’m telling the Universe “I’m emptying my mind of who I was.” That void is Metanoia. And it’s Christ’s last teaching because it’s the most elevated.
Of all the things we’ve talked today, following the original question “What makes up a human being”?, we see that all teachings converge in that the human being is that which he manages to make of himself. If he becomes a fragmented series of bodies with separated realities it will depend on his mental conditioning. And to change those mental conditionings is why we have incarnated. Here the Universe - thanks to you, thanks to me, thanks to each of us who achieves it - acquires, while there is matter, an awareness that there are superior forces which interact with the force of matter.
1:23:34
That awareness can't be integrated while matter is isolated from the superior forces, or while the superior forces have no matter at their disposal. And that need for a plane of integration is what causes us to incarnate. And in the New Era, that integration happens so fast, that we need a map, a method. These are the maps, that I showed you earlier. This, which we have codified in 11 steps which teach us to merge our daily lives with superior energies, and all depends on what we do with our mind.
1:24:07
“ta daaaa”
1:24:11
Many thanks, truly. I think we have had an enormous journey.
And that was only one of 10 questions!
Ok, then, we can have another 10 interviews.
1:25:00
Can we change the subject a little bit? Or maybe it’s not really a change… Plasma… what relationship does it have with our sight, with sound…?
1:25:11
We talk about sound, and a sound appears! There you go, it’s very clear. Ok.
1:25:34
See? The word orders the universe. We see this in every interview or conversation all over the world. We start talking about any topic, and when the right mental state is generated it produces in our physical reality the thing of which we speak. That is Magic.
There are three levels of approaching the union of Plasma with sound and sight. First and foremost, the simplest one, the one most accessible to us as Westerners, is the physical level, returning to the topic of bodies.
The Hypophysis (pituitary gland), the “interruptor”, helps create a state wherein I don’t allow mental conditioning to stop me, like when someone has drunk a little too much and is uninhibited. That is activating the Pituitary. The Pituitary gland is made of water, 80% water I believe, so 80% of the gland is water. And water is activated by light and sound. Like, for example, the experiments of Masaru Emoto. Do you know of him?
Plasma today does what? It makes it much easier to order liquid, water, what we want to give form to. If I speak to water, it will take the shape or pattern according to whether my words are harmonic or not. So we go back to speech, to listening, to the word. Very good. But it isn’t only water which generates those patterns; rather light crystals within the water, light photons in the water. That’s why Masaru Emoto was able to photograph them.
Plasmated water, ater with a high content of Plasma, is much more powerful in generating solid matter. When I give water the order, what happens? From the gaseous state - the word, to liquid state, will then generate the solid state. How will it generate solid state? People will drink it… ie, watering the earth, the crops we will eat. This is the Hopi mythology. They teach you how, from a sound the Universe is generated; and that sound is they see as the lightning. Lightning, Thunder, Wind, Water. Earth. You eat what comes from the earth, and it’s all impregnated from the beginning by energies, which are sound and light. It teaches you the 11 steps of Magic; they are the same steps which we learn in the method.
Ok. When water is highly ‘plasmated’, when it has a high content of light, - especially at this time since December 22, 2012, when there is more Plasma every minute - there is more power to bring into form whatever you want.
1:28:43
I drink water. As I drink I impregnate my body. With what? What what I’ve put in the water. This is what we call baptism, food blessing… Why is it that in the Initiation, before eating or drinking, we say something? It comes from the original rituals wherein before we drank we clinked our glasses to create a sound, we toast, and then we say what we want. The toast is an initiatory ritual. What happens when I say what I want? I’m impregnating water with a patter, an order, from the gaseous to the liquid state. Gaseous, Liquid, and then comes Solid. But matter, before becoming solid, was a liquid; before becoming a liquid, it was a gas; and before becoming solid, liquid and gaseous, it was Plasma. Plasma is nature’s Zero State. All original cultures teach us to talk to Plasma, talk to the Sun, talk to the Light, talk to Logos, because Word and Light are the same. Logos translated both as Light and Word. “In the beginning was the Logos”. Merging your Word with Light generates whatever you want. That’s why we talk to LIght, in whatever way. That is, Light as a deity, Light as the Sun for the aborigines. When there is more light, the Pituitary [Hypophysisi] is charged more easily, because the gland is mostly water and is absolutely sensitive to light. The Hypophysis is water, and water is sensitive to light. What is the gland made of? Precisely that. And the gland is what vibrates most easily in us when we speak.
In the centre of the head, in the place between Epiphysis and Hypophysis a Torus is produced, which vibrates according to the words. That’s why we have the use of Mantras in the old ways.
And so, what is the relationship between Plasma, Sound and Light? Precisely that Sound imbues light with a heightened ability to generate the reality you want, when more light has infused the liquid, the water. And there is a conduit provided inside us specifically for that purpose. It’s the famous Third Eye or Hypophysis.
It’s going to be hard to translate this right now but ..
Yes, perhaps, because these are somewhat technical terms…
And you always merge so many visions and knowledge from so many cultures…
I think we had arrived at place of natural thematic closure.
Yes, I think that we will finish that part of the interview there, and we can tag this final part on to the next one
1:31:4
Yes, because what we spoke about today, if you go back, we talked about the WuWei path; bringing things into form using sound, how do we create realities, and Plasma which is the great bridge; techniques which all cultures taught to empty the mind without reducing them to a meditative technique, which is a struggle when we’re just starting off and believe that we can use that [meditation] to achieve what we want. But truly I think what we achieved as the ‘golden clasp’ of the conversation brought us to a strongly conclusive point, and now it’s hard add other topics to that. We’re already full, and can’t take another bite.
1:33:05
We still have left open 3 topics from today for sure, and besides that, whatever interests you have. This is the time when I am trying to openly share all this, so not only can you count on me again, but I am grateful for the opportunity.
We’ll be in touch with Damian for our next meeting.
1:34:57
Please tell him that I am touched. This was not in my plans, but I’m about to present my new book in Buenos Aires at the Book Fair in April, together with two Q’ero priests who are coming specifically for my presentation. If he wants I can share with you some of the video we will take, where I will speak in fact about why this particular teaching causes that effect in people. This teaching as been marked by the Q’eros as the “Pachakutek teaching of the New Era”, that is, the teaching that enables the new era.
I hadn’t planned to talk about this, but as retribution for the kindness he just expressed. So if he would like, after the Book Fair, I will get to you a summary of the filming and we can talk about that. What is special about this particular teaching and how the Q’eros have anointed us with it. directed us to it. The difference of this teaching is that it does not teach loose ideas; it teaches a whole new paradigm, which is exactly what we need to change the era. So I have distilled this in my next book and we can talk about that after I release it during the Book Fair.
1:37:02
O World Project: Hello, Good afternoon here, good evening there.
JLP: Good afternoon then.Thank you truly for this new opportunity.There aren't very many places where we can get into such depth, so I truly want to think big huge difference you are making. Thank you very much.
O World Project: No, thank you for granting us this time. We have been waiting anxiously.
JLP: Okay, I sincerely think we can talk about powerful things that are generally not talked about. So I leave that possibility open. Onward. Gracias.
O World Project: Let me tell him what you just said. And another thing: if you see me looking down it's because I'm making notes to be able to translate to him.I have to write everything down to be able to do the translation….
JLP: Fantastic. I can generally understand questions or what he says, but translate anyways just to be sure. Very good, onward.
O World Project: Let’s start with a question and see where it takes us. our first question refers to the aspects that make up that human psyche. What are those elements? For example, intellect emotion, spirituality. Are there more?
JLP: What a great question! Is no teaching that has not touched on this topic, and as you mentioned before, it reached the Western world badly articulated. There is not one teaching that has not touched on this topic. The problem is as we usually receive it, It is–I will use a word a little strong but true–it's absolutely useless. It’s intellectual information that, unless we go through the journey of initiation... it's utterly useless.
If we're told that the bodies are 4, 7, 11… it’s all the same. It's intellectual information, one thing is the same as the other… they give you some names and characteristics, and this is not how I learned it, first from the sacred writings and later from the people who taught me to use these bodies. They aren’t just names. It's a whole logic about which we can talk if you want.
That is how we find it in the original sacred scriptures that is how they manage it and the original cultures. It is important to understand that there are points in common between different initiations that never knew of each other, and yet they shared the same information.
That shared information agrees basically that the different aspects of the human being are found in seven main bodies, 3 additional bodies which are much harder to access, and on superior body. And that is a number - seven plus three plus one - that is found the different initiations, such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Kabbala, and aboriginal cultures. They always coincide in the information, which implies something awesome. It’s no insignificant matter that cultures which are so different from each other agree that the constitution of what we call the ‘human being’ is: seven bodies, three bodies, and one body.
At the same time, these initial seven bodies show a subdivision fundamental to the understanding of this logic: they are subdivided into four and three - four inferior ones and three that are slightly more elevated. I insist, if we don’t understand the logic for which this is taught, it is useless to learn it. But it is fundamental, deeply important, that humanity learn this, and at this time when, as we spoke earlier, we find an abundance of the element which feed the first seven of these eleven bodies.
The basic names of these seven bodies … I will use a kind of combination between what is taught by Hinduism and Buddhism … even though they have other names in other cultures. The Q’eros, of which we spoke last time, also talk of the different components, and they coincide though the names change. Perhaps the ones that reached the Occident most easily… some have no translation, we have to use the Sanskrit terms; others have become daily terms:
The physical body, the ethereal body, the astral body, the mental body and the causal body. There we have 4 bases that make up a sort of square, and superimposed on the top side is the fifth body. That is, the fourth and fifth bodies share the top side of the square, I don’t know if I’m being clear. There we have four, and a hidden fifth body. And then on top are drawn, like two hands in prayer, the other two bodies. This constitutes the seven principal bodies.
8:59
There we have seven: physical, ethereal, astral.. the one which acts as a bridge is the mental body, and is very important; so important in fact, that it is a double body, with the causal body - that is what it’s called.
I’m using the Spanish terms and you can translate them. The other ones don’t have Spanish names: inferiors manas, superior manas, buddhi and atman. We will look at them again because they’re extremely important. I don’t know if you’d like summarize at this point, the names at least: physical, ethereal, astral, mental, causal, inferior manas, superior manas, buddhi, and atman. This is a combination of what’s reached us from Hinduism and Buddhism, which are the principal names
9:45
We also find them in the Kabbala, I don’t know if you want the names, but they’re also there. Only in the Kabbala they begin with the more subtle names. From a realm corresponding to the principal bodies, with the most luminosity and consciousness called el Ein (which is turn has three layers: Ein, Ein sof, Ein sof Aur which are levels of luminosity from most to least resplendent)… from which emanate the eleven states: Kether, Hokhmah, Binah, Nezah, Gemurah, Tifaret, Heserd, Hod, Yesod, Malkut which is the physical body.
10:30
I give you all the names simply so it’s clear that all cultures speak of this, with different names, but the logic is the same. I don’t know you’d like to summarize this.
11:20
Atman. [The true self of an individual beyond identification with phenomena, the essence of an individual.] Atma is more familiar in the Occident, but Atma is who incarnates in the Atman plane.
Atman is the plane one lives on in that state of Atma. Good. Once we have these names, as I said, in the Kabbala, Hinduism, in aboriginal cultures, in Buddhism.
Ok. Let me interrupt you; we have a question.
11:59
Ok. That’s the issue. There’s the logic I spoke about. What’s the use of all this? Good. Perhaps the most direct way to explain this… there are three images that helped me a lot when I studied this topic in the different writings. One of them is the most complicated and advanced one, we can leave it until the end if there is interest, and it’s the one that will teach you the most, but the other two are very good and very helpful.
13:05
What is the principal motive for lighting a candle? We can say: the candle corresponds to the elements I just mentioned. The four sides are the wax body itself, and the upper triangle is the flame. Why do light a candle? To illuminate our daily life. But we can light a candle only from our daily lives. I want to make this very clear. This is what opened my mind when I understood it this way, in Hinduism. This is the logic of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. This is the logic of the Ohm Tat Sat in India. We all want the light ‘turned on’. But the light depends on the candle, on the wax and the wick. We all want the light on, but the lights depends on there being good wax and a good wick, and friction to create a spark and a flame. While we all want the light, the light wants us to create the right conditions so that light can enter us, literally.
14:15
When you think about it this way, you can understand it. This is a summary of the Upanishads; It’s more elevated than what one learns in Hinduism. The order is: Puranas, Vedas, Upanishads.
Upanishads: Shad means ‘radiance’, ‘a light that’s lit’… when we talk about Shambala, Upanishads… that’s the meaning. And teaches exactly that: a logic to ignite our higher bodies. But that doesn’t mean it can be done from within the higher bodies. I cannot light a candle if the physical aspects of the candle are not well built. Would you like translate that and then we’ll look at the logic.
16:00
Would you like to go one.
Yes, we’re just getting started.
This is a great image to think about it at first. It helps to think about the logic of merely intellectual information. If we think about the point in the candle where the wick emerges we can understand the image we spoke of before, because at that point there are two things superimposed: the upper limit of the wax and the wick. The same thing is true in Hinduism with the symbol that shows that solid aspects and the subtle aspects.
16:41
Now good. The concept that we have about ‘what is a person’ in each culture and each paradigm, can be clearly defined with what we’ve been talking about. Depending on which of these bodies, aspects, doorways into the universe, all are different names… steps of magic…like The Method of Magic we have talked about here… depending on how many of these we are conscious of in our lives, our concept of what a human being is and of our life will be completely different.
17:17
This is key. We Westerners, created in paradigms such as the Science paradigm … this is terrible … have known for a scant century that what we call a ‘human being’ is not only - out of all this we’ve discussed - what we call the physical body. This is awful. Until only hundred years ago, our paradigmatic conception of a person and human being, was what in the candle would only be the wax, the physical body. Everything else we believed belonged to divine, celestial, angelic realms, and did not understand it as part of the human being.
Understanding this, and understanding our very limited conception of man and of life from the outset is the same thing, and it opens our minds to understand what we what mean when we talk about man.
18:12
Don't know if you would like to translate that.
So, did you say this constitutes our physical part?
Yes. That is, what we understand as a Human being, until 100 years ago, until we began to understand radioactivity, the concept of energy bodies surrounding us, the idea that our awareness is not in our brain… as I said, until I hundred years ago, the beginning of the 1900s, what we understood to be the Human being, out of the 11 bodies I just mentioned, was the most ordinary base, and that is what we thought was man.
We believed the others were not part of each of us, as if they belonged to other worlds, rather than being parts of our constitution as humans.
19:40
The paradigms we call the ‘old era’. It’s still what people think. It’s like thinking that because we don’t use the left arm, it’s not considered a part of our body. The same is true for the astral body, the mental body … we don’t think them parts of our body. We think they belong to other worlds. When we think that, we are thrust out of the universe, and we become no different from a stone. We only have a physical body, and some evasive ethereal body which we think belongs to another world, and that we don’t inhabit in this world. Rather, we leave it for some time after we die.
20:41
Let’s think about this as they think in India, which is brilliant and very clear, and not only there: India, Kabbala, Buddhism, aboriginal cultures, all share a logic. In India they think about and teach this which is called a human being, from a realm called Purusha. We again find the term “sha”. Purusha is what we might call the “kingdom of the gods”. But this is interesting: the Upanishads explain that, in the realm of Purusha they to be taught from here, something that they can’t learn themselves. See how the story is reversed? We always think that humans ask favours of the Gods. They start from a completely different conception. They require a favour from us who can incarnate. And they give back to those who offer them service.
21:40
From the outset it gives a central role in the universe … from being the one asking to one who is responsible for helping the Gods. The Gods depend on what humans experience. What is that experience? When we understand it we’ll understand this whole logic. This is Purusha.
22:36
Purusha is integrated, of all these bodies, by Superior Manas, Buddha and Atma, to put some order to things. Purusha is Superior Manas, Buddha and Atma. If you want, we can see the names in other mythologies, like Ketzer, Ein, Sof in the Kabbala. In the aborigines, this is fundamental, it’s the world of Kausai PUri , we’ll see it later, and that world of Causai Puri is moved (affected) from here … It’s fundamental we understand this because the logic coincides, though it is unlike what we assume in religion, where we believe that we depend on subtle realms. There is a wonderful interdependence that gives us a place and a logic.
23:21
Very good. The physical world, the ethereal world, and the astral world, are what we call ‘subrogate worlds’. They’re also called - though I don’t want to keep throwing out terms - worlds of Rupa; Rupa means ‘worlds with generated form, solid form… we believe things are according to their form’. Those three worlds have minimum contact with what is the mental world, and there is our square. We move, in our daily lives, between the physical, the ethereal, and the astral world. If you want it made easier: astral world = the world of sleep, put simply, where the astral world is clearly at its peak. Physical world = the world of our daily lives; and the ethereal world is the bridge between both.
24:15
Today, fortunately, we are capable of photographing the ethereal world, even part of our aura … the aura enters the astral world, the ethereal is the bridge between the bodies, and the physical body is what we generally believe is the entirety of the human being. OK. Those three bodies are conditioned. And we believe our lives are limited to that. Those three bodies are dependent, they are consequence [effect], not cause. But we also can’t change them from the higher realms, from the realm of Purusha, because Purusha needs us to make the changes.
24:56
So what’s our place in the universe? That is, we can’t make the changes from below, but neither can we make the changes from above. From where can we make the changes? From that place that unites above and below. Everyone knows the famous phrase from the Kybalion, “As above, so below.” Ok, here the ‘how’ [as] is very important. How is it above and below? There is a bridge, which like every bridge, unites two places, if you cross it. Or it can separate two places if you don’t cross it. That bridge is the key. And that bridge is the one we know least about in the Occident. It’s called the Mental body.
25:36
That’s why I said, it’s a bridging body. It works at the same time with the world of Rupa, the world of form, our daily world, and the world of Arupa, without form. He who understands the logic of the mental world, will find order in all other logics. We will see it now.
27:06
In Toltec philosophy, the known, the unknown, and the unknowable?
Yes. That corresponds to quadrants in a logic that are not Toltec; here it is. The Unknowable, the Known, and the Knowable, though it’s contingent, or conditional. But you see there is an additional quadrant, they are four. They’re not three. And this logic, which absolutely actual, modern, and contemporary, strives to understand the same: a dynamic between four bodies, and it’s at the junction between those bodies that is the connection to the higher bodies. So, the real answer is, that is a way in to the subject.
He was studying… we’ve been studying
28:01
Very good. … Sorry. Should I go on?
Do you have more on this subject?
Everything! I want to make this logic clear, its use and usefulness in our lives. If not, they’re just names and it means nothing.
28:56
Perfect. Look at what happens when someone wishes to start on a journey. Well, after the first 14 years of reading so much, the next part of the journey… courses… seminars… before all the travelling… and I know this well from my own experience and from others’. Without noticing, you become anchored, fixed, in one of those lower worlds. There are people, for example, who believe the path is the path of diets, and make the diet the centre of their lives. That is placing the physical world at the centre; although they might use a spiritual excuse, they remained fixed. The day they die, there won’t be a physical body that can be helped by means of a diet. What they learned from the diet is useful only if transcended. But they place the diet at the centre of their lives.
29:49
Others, begin with the energy: the astral world, the energetic world… they want to learn how to activate the chakras. Both approaches, if they aren’t part of a journey, end in losing oneself. Like Buddha after two years with the Anyacines .. the ones who isolate themselves to create physical worlds in the astral realm. He said he had lost seven years.
30:15
What is difficult to achieve, and where all teachings point, is that the revolution must occur from within the world we don’t want to fuss with - the mental world. Initiation begins in the mental world, and from there radiates differently to the other worlds. Look at how direct this is. If we want to start from the physical world, or the astral world, we easily get lost. And the changes we can effect are minimal. And how do we know they are minimal? Because we keep on repeating the same patterns, across generations, the same behaviours, the same problems.
30:56
This changes completely when we understand that the first phase of the warrior’s journey - the magician’s journey (warrior, merchant, priest and magician), is a journey where we must first deal with mental conditioning. This mental conditioning is what can open these closed doors against which you bounce, which in terms of Shambala, Purusha, and Upanishad of which we spoke before, means you will have to re-incarnate. You have not transcended the bridge of your mental conditioning. The Bardo Thodol is fantastic for this; it shows this with utter clarity. Everything changes from incarnation to incarnation - you changed sex, time, social status, family situation, race … everything except your mind.
31:50
There is the mental body. You repeated… we all think that if life changed, if our family changed, if our economic position changed, if your partner changed … ok. Here is where this ‘macro scale’ we just spoke of is helpful. Look, you’ve changed everything from one incarnation to the next, except the one thing you needed to change, and for which you specifically incarnated. You didn’t, therefore you bounce, and return to the physical, ethereal and astral world.
32:18
That depends on whether we cross the bridge or not. That bridge lies in the mental body. Slowly we begin to focus on that. I don’t know if you’d like to translate.
33:32
So what do we do with the mental body, and why is it useful? That is the question. Understand that throughout incarnations we have changed everything about the physical body; we have hugely changed the energetic body - the energy we possessed living in the jungle is very different from that we possess in the city. Our energy is not the same with the diet from culture to another in a different incarnation. However, any change that we made in terms of our energetic or physical ability, did not produce the change - I’m going to put it in a mystical way like the Upanishads do - the change that the universe requires of us.
34:12
That change for which Purusha needs us. Always that wonderful Indian logic which says that if you help the Gods, the Gods will help you. The Gods helping you means Magic in your life. We have to understand this. The mental body is that hard bridge to cross, as the Bardo Thodol shows, from incarnation to incarnation. That bridge can’t be crossed by improving either the physical or the energetic. The best proof is in the Bardo Thodol itself. The Lamas themselves have very refined energies; we assume they can easily control their physical body; but the re-incarnation average of a Lama is 120 re-incarnations.
34:56
That is, no matter how refined the energy or the physical body, the universe is none the wise; they still have no access to higher universal realms. Where is the key? We understand this in the initiation - the inner journey or warrior’s journey from the outset deals with the mental world. If I in Western world want to deal with my mental world, what do I turn to? Psychology. Then I am lost - I say this as a Psychoanalyst - lost for ever. Because what we know in the West of the mental world, is barely a part of the unconscious, and is lost as we try to change our behaviour believing that in doing so we are altering the mental world.
35:38
And behaviour is a function of the mental world, not a cause. I can’t touch the mental world changing behaviours. Ok. Understand that the mental world is that world we are not conscious of, or as in the Toltec philosophy, the Unknown. And to gain awareness of that world immediately accesses what? Let’s remember: physical, ethereal, astral, mental, and superimposed on it, the causal body. What does this mean? We Cause. We cause what we were not able to cause before. From the mental body. This is brilliantly useful, a word that seemed foreign til now.
36:29
If I can achieve a change in my mental body, I can change what I cause. Why? Because what I cause will generate at the same time, that from my mind two universes are ordered. The universe where subtle energies generate matter… look… give me a few seconds to see if it’s here… here! Let’s not lose sight of this. This very thing is what the Inca conception shows. This is a scheme of the Incan Cosmovision. We can see the same thing: one world, another world. World of Rupa and world of Arupa. What do we see? A world in which something in the middle can unite or separate. This cosmic egg is the key, which is the same as the common border, though here it is in a vertical space rather than horizontal. It’s an egg which is difficult to traverse, but at the same time acts as a conduit for the superior energies. But what is the problem. Here they dissipate and they do not reach man.
37:35
They return to the universe. Man remains below and this remains above; they remain separated. This is a map; here are the 11 steps of Magic. I have given seminars on this which shows the 11 steps of Magic. This, in the Incan cosmovision, shows the same thing we were speaking of. What does it show? When we access this world, the world of Cause, which they call Yachai… Yachai means ‘having gained the knowledge to create the world’. It’s the world of Huiracocha - the one who creates a different world with his teaching. Ok. When I access this world, the world from whence I cause a difference, what happens? I can access it from Yachai - my teachings - remember: the teachings that allow you to create what you want. The teaching about the Mental world. What I learn and achieve through these teachings cause that the refined energies (which come from the Inferior and Superior Manas) unite with my daily life and fill my Colca. What is Colca? This here. A deposit. For whatever I want.
38:52
I caused, from my mental world, that refined energies impregnate my daily life with whatever I want. The journey depends on this step. Here we have energies, and here we have energies. My energies will unite with refined energies according to this step which corresponds to what we located earlier. You can see superimposed two levels or energy. This is like the mental world and the causal world.
Understand that our daily world is brought about by what we do with our mind, and that which we do with our mind orders superior energies which fall and traverse our mind and fill our daily life (here is our daily life: earth with a rainbow, animals, plants, stones, the Colca, which is whatever you want in your life, fill these deposits with whatever you want - money, health, food …) This depends on this game. This right here is our mental body.
40:00
When you use the word ‘order’, which sense are you using it it? To order someone or something?
You can’t separate one from the other. That’s great. That’s great. When I produce order within me, I can order the universe, and the universe orders (puts in place) everything, orders the energies to bring about the order which I gave it. That, precisely, is what Abracadabra is. “I generate reality by speaking.” I order. I order. This is the great difference with any religion. In the religions, you ask; the Magician doesn’t ask. The Magician orders. But he can’t order outwardly if there is dis-order within. That’s where the mental body comes into play.
40:58
Now, before another step. What does this scheme show? The same as the images we were looking at before. There is something that can unite or separate. To understand this, we need the second of the three images. One is the candle; now to understand this, we look at the next image. And then the third, which is the most powerful of the three… Do you want to relate this?
Superior energies, inferior energies - that’s our astral body; this is the world of superior and inferior Manas, Buddha and Atma. The uniting of our astral world and our superior Manas - or their separation - depend on what happens in the middle, with our mental body. And it’s the one we know least about in the West.
42:52
Is this how we help the Gods? By transforming dense energies into subtle energies? Is that why the Gods need us?
43:09
That, to the Q’eros, is called Hucha Mikuy . It means “I ingest Hucha (dense) energy and transform it into subtle energy”. The answer is Yes. But that happens only at an energetic level. What the universe requires of us is not limited to the energetic. That, actually, it can do without us. If we help, then evolution includes us. We’re not here only to transform dense energies into subtle, although if we help in that then our lives can benefit from the subtle energies. Why? Because the universe has its own system, which is the third of the three images I mentioned (we’ll be looking at the second one), which teaches how the universe itself refines the energies. And if you don’t refine yourself … natural selection: you remain in the dense planes.
44:01
So, the answer is yes, but it’s only a point of entry. Why? Because something is missing. What is it that the different universal planes can’t bring about unless something else does it? The Union of Matter with Consciousness. That is what ignites our spark. That’s what in India is the famous Trimurti. What is Trimurti? Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, in that order. Shiva, simply put, is Matter; Brahma is superior Manas, Budhi and Atma. And Vishnu … if you look at the image of Trimurti, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva sitting together, what do you see? Shiva is very different from Vishnu, the intermediary. Shiva does has no lit candle around its head. Vishnu is the one that has a lit candle on its head. And Brahma is pure fire.
45:11
What does this mean? If we succeed in sparking the energy in our matter, our daily lives, which otherwise is not lit … what is the energy which we lack in our daily lives? Our consciousness lit up. Which creates precisely, that which the Greeks called Agape. What is it? What Christ taught, which the church translated as Love. We ignite ourselves. Igniting matter transforms a state of Shiva to one of Vishnu. And Brahma never communicates with Vishna, only with Vishnu. That means Brahma doesn’t communicate with you if you move only at the level of matter.
45:55
The superior planes - Inferior and superior Manas, Budhi and Atman - have nothing to do with the un-gnited man; they need man to be “lit-up”. Which path ignites us? The mental body. That mental body is easy to see in another of these images - one was the square with the triangle on top. The second image, much more simple, is that of the layers of an onion… if we think of the different bodies as the layers of an onion. This is very good because from the outset it makes us conscious of the unity. It’s not that the astral world is somewhere, and the mental world is somewhere else… the gods elsewhere … the angels… Your body - that which you mean when you say “you”, the human being, the person, encompasses a layer in each of those worlds.
46:44
And your awareness is what needs to connect them. That’s what the universe lacks - that matter has an awareness of the laws that move it. That is Shiva - matter without awareness. When matter begins to acquire that awareness, it begins to light up, and becomes Vishnu. When it is lit up, it can communicate with the superior Manas. That is the Causal body. To put some order: the inferior bodies: physical, ethereal and astral, on the side of Shiva; the Mental body par excellence: Vishnu; and Manas, inferior and superior, Budhi and Atman, on the side of Brahma. What is our function? To unite it all. To unite matter with awareness - that is Vishnu in India. The same as Shiva, he has matter, is incarnate. But like Brahma, it ignites within himself at the mental level (and we will look at this topic) what only Vishnu ignites, and that which man, in his daily life of moving within matter, and who only looks to resolve things within this world as generated by the paradigm of the old era, doesn’t even suspect it exists.
47:55
That energy, and matter. Uniting matter with awareness is what the gods ask of us. Gods have consciousness, but matter is completely inaccessible to them in their world. Why? Because they don’t need it in their world, but the Universe does. That’s what Purusha teaches us. So they require that somebody unite matter with consciousness. That’s why you’re here, that’s why you’re here, that’s why I’m here. To imbue matter with consciousness.
49:30
To say it in one sentence… What do the Gods want from us? That we light the candle. That we unite matter with that spark. We can live our whole lives with the candle out, that is our every day life as we understand it. Wanting to resolve, to achieve, with physical effort, that doesn’t go beyond the physical - ethereal - astral. Or making a change at that point where the candle can be lit. That's where initiation begins: lighting the candle. That’s what we’re after.
50:09
What does lighting the candle mean? Many things all at once. The key lies in understanding that the reason the Gods need our help is that they live in a world of pure consciousness, and we humans live in a world of pure matter. To achieve this bridge is the reason why they created ‘terminals’ in the universe called ‘us’. This puts us in a very clear place and gives meaning to life, and allows us to understand why we keep bouncing and reincarnating until we acquire a certain glow, which every culture mentions. Agape for the Greeks, Kausai for the Q’eros; that which causes Shiva to become Vishnu when it’s ignited.
50:53
We can easily say, there are times in our lives when “I feel lit-up”. I acquire a mental possibility… what changed? I ate the same as yesterday, but today I feel fired up… or the other way around… yesterday I felt so good and today I feel as always again. It’s not just diet. Say I get an energetic treatment … I get my aura cleaned, my chakras… people return home and everything is still the same. It does not go beyond the physical or the energetic; neither the psychological as we understand it. But suddenly, say, I give you some awesome news… you get fired up.
51:33
Where did the change take place? In the mental realm. We can say there is something there that produced the spark. Initiation means producing that spark. And to that end, teachers looks for the most certain path, though it’s the most annoying for the world of matter: friction (51:53). If I rub two stones, I will surely get a spark. And that’s the very thing we avoid in our daily lives. Friction with issues that force us to generate the spark.
52:08
That’s human conflict
Exactly! But understand that conflict is the solution. Buddha went looking for conflict; he sought out conflict with his father when he said, “I will not be the prince you want me to be”. Christ sought out conflict when he said to the Hebrews: “no matter how comfortable we here, and that no one is after us, we cannot stay slaves to Rome; we must be faithful to Yahweh.” So understand, they sought out the spark to ignite themselves. That’s the same thing a teacher does for you in any culture, and I’ve been there and can vouch for it. The look for conflict in you. “Don’t tell me if it rains in the jungle you will not light a fire… go light it even though it’s raining.” “I can’t!” With “matter” I can’t.
52:50
So if I go beyond what I understand to be the limits of my physical and ethereal worlds, and what I think I can affect at an energetic level, I move beyond my mental limits. Good. Now we’re back to our map. What does this map tell us? Here is the key. The layers of an onion are perfect for understanding this. Why? It lends us unity consciousness… it allows us to understand that what we call the human being is made up of absolutely universal bodies, which we can’t access them. It’s like saying, your home has wonderful, huge attic, full of light, but you can’t reach it because the ladder is broken. Another things is believing that Gods dwell up there and that it’s not part of your home. The onion is perfect that way. It helps us understand that there is a physical body, but also an ethereal body, an astral body, a mental body, and there are bodies beyond what we can see in our daily lives, just like the onion.
53:55
Ok. That wonderful image is very useful because to access the bodies I have to peel off the layers of the onion… but peeling from the inside. That’s the big difference. That is what this shows. Look at the clue here… this is huge, it’s beautiful. That’s why this map of the Pachakutiyamki (54:16) shows the complete Shamanic cosmovision; the Toltecs, the Andean… that is, not just Inca, but all Andean cultures. What does it show? This world holds a clue. What is it? The mental world which joins the physical with the higher universal energies holds the key. What is it? You can see clearly there. It must be empty. See, it’s an empty conduit. It must become an empty conduit. And what’s the problem? Our minds are full. Now we can begin to understand the logic of initiation, which strives to empty the mind. It brings you to a state of consciousness where you become aware that your mind is full of things that are not you.
55:09
It reminds me of the Toltec cosmovision and the exercises that Juan Matus teaches Carlos Castaneda to silence the mind.
55:25
“Stopping the world” they call it. Stopping the world is that silence. Where did that invite us? The the path of the warrior. And what warrior, against which conditioning? Physical? Energetic? Mental! Everything falls into place. You are understanding perfectly. See? From there, the initiation falls into place because the universe falls into place. Now we can get into that.
56:47
Very good. We were getting there with the third image; you are getting ahead of yourselves.
57:00
The answer to that is the third image. You’re faster; I’m going slower, because I’m going a step at a time, but we’re getting there, I promise. If I don’t answer it, please let me know. For the moment we must understand that we are required to generate something we don’t know how to generate. And unfortunately, when we try, we got lost in the practices which, at most… now what was it? When you learn meditation, if they are honest they tell you “perhaps in 12 years you might achieve to empty your mind for one minute.” Thank you very much! If that’s the path…. one minute of mental silence in 12 years more or less, beginning with a practice of [Tan ten and Zan zen] to generate at the end of an 11-year cycle, in the 12th year, one minute of mental silence. It makes no sense to incarnate for that.
57:57
Emptying the mind…. even though it’s true that those who lived in the temples, ate but a grain of rice a day, had their whole incarnations to do this in the old era, and could do it by means of meditative and contemplative techniques … we - you, me, and everyone listening to this - we have decided to incarnate in a time when it’s not about going to the temple or the mountain, to empty the mind. We must learn to empty the mind in what we do daily, and that is the challenge of the new era. Plasma accelerates it all. Accelerates and unifies, and if I think I will empty my mind for a minute in the next 12 years, even with 15 minutes of daily meditation, the rest of the day my worlds are once again fragmented, which is what happens to everyone.
58:49
What are we talking about when we say ‘empty the mind’? We are speaking of the very thing which makes up the concept of ‘mind’, what you just asked about. Now we can look at the third image. This third image is the key to the universe, and this is not hyperbole. There is even agreement in the science that this image is indeed to the key to the universe. Given that it is an air-tight image, I don’t know how far you want to go with it here, but at the very least we can introduce it. This third image shows us what working with the mind is all about, the concept of the mind. This third image show us how these worlds integrate or why they remain separated.
59:39
Instead of a square with the three worlds above, or instead of superimposed layers, like an onion, the dynamic of the system is shown by the topological figure called the Torus or Toroid. The Torus is the image that we have used since the beginning in initiation. The symbol of initiation is a unfolded Torus, a toroid drawn in two dimensions.
What is the Torus? All of the bodies I mentioned, all together in one dynamic. And there’s the key. A Torus … Let’s see… for those unclear about what a toroid is: an energy field, in the shape of an apple cut in half, it has that shape. And where is the valuable part? Where it’s empty, in the centre. There’s where the seed is, which will allow me to Cause [bring about] the body I want, the world I want, the health I want, the life… the seed is there. Now good.
1:00: 48
A Torus which sends energy from one extreme to the other, attracting everything that is around it. Science calls it a Black Hole. There is also a White Hole, which is less known and receives less press, but it exists too, on the other side of the vortex. They attract - Cause - whatever I want from the Physical world and the Astral world (night and day), as long as - and here’s the key - the base of the Torus must be…? Empty. And we have a tendency to create a life which, at the base of the Torus, is full of dense thoughts. In that case, the Torus breaks down and doesn’t function. To understand it in this way makes it perfectly clear.
1:01:44
That is the mind? The mind… and it’s useful to remember this concept… Mind, etymologically, is a Greek word, and it’s brilliant. Mind, and the concept of a Mental body, means “goal” or “aim”. It depends on the goal or aim you set for yourself. If your aim is subject to the prevailing paradigms which tells you what is possible and what isn’t, you block the Torus. You must un-block the Torus; generating this void allows the energies to flow, and these circulating energies require that your mind be empty. Now, emptying your mind does not mean sitting in front of a candle chanting Ohm… again, that is all very good for the one wanting to dedicate his life to the temple. But we incarnated into a normal life, does that then mean we can’t awaken?
1:02:39
The point of incarnation is not that. Buddha didn’t do it, Christ didn’t do it, neither did Sankhara nor Milarepa; actually Milarepa did, but he abandoned it in the end. Anyway, I want you to understand that none of the initiates who have become our models understood that the final aim of life is to do meditation or contemplation to empty the mind. They learned that emptying the mind is much more difficult than what you can achieve within a certain time of practice. It is, in fact, unblocking your goals. What Matus, for example, requires of Castaneda. “What do you mean you can’t this or that and you want to be a warrior”. I must enter into the internal conflict that forces me to change my goals, change my mind. That is emptying the mind.
1:03:28
What is it? Getting rid of mental conditioning which tells me my goals must be finding a good job, a good career, good health, good family, and that’s it, that’s my life. That’s the base, the stage; what are the goals above that? Changing goals, and especially finding Impossible goals - Impossible - is emptying the mind. Because to accept a goal I previously believed to be impossible, I first must empty myself of conditionings in regards to my mind - my goal. That, Christ taught as the very final exercise; we can talk about that later if you want. The last exercise Christ taught his disciples was that.
1:04:21
Castaneda calls it, among others, “Stalking” or “not-doing”… changing your goals, or doing something you’re not used to.
1:04:30
Very good. That’s what the Chinese, in Taoism, call Gu Wei. Gu means three things: ‘absolute, totality’, ‘empty’ (and once again it’s the same concept), and it also means ‘negation’. Wei means ‘action’ or ‘not-acting’. But you understand that ‘not acting’ does not mean sitting idle, and in India it’s called Akarma. Karma, we all know the simplest translation, it’s ‘action’. A-, like in the Latin languages, is ‘without’ or ‘the negation of’. But what does ‘not acting’ mean? Gandhi followed Akarma, because he learned it from his teacher Vinoba, and from the Baghavad Gita. Did Gandhi do nothing? Did he sit under a tree and waited? No. “Not-acting” means letting the universe act on your behalf, but you must order it first. And that order must be established in your mind first. That’s what ‘not-acting’ is.
1:05:39
Please, don’t be mistaken. I teach the 4 techniques of ‘non-action’ when I teach Initiation, we can look at them at some point. I show how Christ used those techniques; we can see them in the Gospels, the Apocrypha, the Dead Sea manuscripts… he always use one of these techniques. So did Gandhi, and freed India. And can you say that Gandhi did ‘nothing’ in his ‘non-action’? He freed India! But from whence did he do it? From ‘non-action’. What did that non-action do? Emptied the mind! What was the first thing Gandhi did? He emptied his mind. Why? With diets? No. He didn’t achieve it with diets. In fact, he resorted to fasting when he things weren’t working for him. Emptied the mind how? He emptied it of paradigms. “We don’t need the English” he told everyone, literally. “And since we don’t need the English,” he said, “it’s possible to live without them…” See? He began changing their minds with a total conviction. This place is the base of the Torus. The base of the Torus is our mental body.
1:06:43
Which will join with the superior Manas, and which will join to the superior energies, and together will generate whatever I put there. Or, if it is blocked, that Torus will stop and Magic will stop. The Torus is like the candle we spoke of before. What is required for the candle to burn? Wax. But there must be an empty hole within the wax. Without an empty whole I can’t put a wick in it. A lit candle follows the same logic as the Torus. It requires an empty channel to connect the inferior and superior. That empty channel is what we are talking about.
1:07:17
The mental body functions when it’s ‘filled by the wick’, but it must be emptied first. That is what we learn in Magic. And we learn it in Eleven steps, each of which brings you awareness of the eleven bodies. In fact, we generate reality with the same logic that moves the Torus. I don't know if you’d like to translate a summary of this discussion about the Torus… the relationship between the wick and the base, what it means to empty the mind, and what mind itself means.
1:08:54
Very good. This, which is emptying the mind, is key. As we said, it’s what connects it all. In Magic, we understand that emptying that mind is produces the spark. It brings you to that place where, suddenly, what you thought was impossible is possible now. You have been emptied of a conditioning; you have emptied your mind of a paradigm. Why is it so important to achieve that? Exactly what we are looking what. In the Torus we find the connection between the energies that belong to the world of Rupa, and the superior energies, when you generate that void.
1:09:29
We are constantly learning to generate that void… … and what do I use to learn? What the Bardo Thodol teaches me to use to free myself from the world of Rupa, the physical world. And what is that? The hole? What hole? This one. When I speak, I must learn to listen for what I must empty from myself. By means of this hole which in fact, connects, and allows me (through what I learn from Magic about the power of the word - Abbracadabbra) to listen to myself and evaluate when what I’m saying is not aligned with my innermost wishes; that is what I need to leave aside, to block, empty myself of.
1:10:19
Once I can leave this aside, I can learn to use it. Once I can leave it aside and it no longer directs me … once I am no longer enslaved to the enemy, to the giant who is more powerful than I, then, as in the myths, i can get on its back and make him do my bidding. That is that world we have no awareness of, which begins to function in ‘non-action’ precisely because I make it act on my behalf. This follows certain laws, certain logic. And that logic, as the Bardo Thodol states, is achieved through “Liberation by Audition”, which in fact is the real translation of Bardo Thodol: “Liberation by means of listening”. What do I free myself of? From being trapped in a world of dense energies - the physical, ethereal and astral world. How do I free myself? By listening. Why must I use my hearing to free myself? Because I have to learn to hear when my mind traps me in a cycle that extinguishes my flame.
1:11:19
The cycle to takes me to the world of Shiva, for the Hindis, it smothers me, it leaves me in the world of matter. The more I learn to discern when my mind deviates be means of listening to my words, the more control I gain the world of subtle energies. What for? So that I can maintain the fluidity within the Torus which causes the generation of Magic in our daily lives. Why? Because when the Torus maintains the void at its base, the surrounding energies meet and unite there immediately rise through that void, to re-appear at the other end, re-ordered and re-arranged. What does it require in the middle? To be re-ordered. My order. But if the order I speak is not aligned or deviates from my wish, then what emerges will also deviate.
1:12:08
It will generate a different reality. A basic example: if I believe I won’t find work, and I firmly commit myself to look for work tomorrow, there is mis-alignment there, of which I must empty myself. “Tomorrow I will look for work” means “tomorrow I will NOT find it”. I’m stuck in a paradigm which causes a rift of the energies within my mind. And when I find myself in the superior part of the Torus, where the inferior and superior energies merge and return, they will generate a reality where I don’t find work, because the order I gave was had a deviation.
1:12:45
Deviated how? “I want to *look for* work.” Granted. But see, I didn’t empty my mind of that conditioning. In my mental paradigm, because of my age, my studies, whatever, I don’t believe I will find work … if I don’t empty myself of this conditioning, the universe will keep separated the issues I ordered. But I wasn’t the universe or the Torus that failed. This Torus is the meeting place … hah! I just remembered this… Toronto is Canada’s capital, right? And Toronto is a word which is a clue here. It is the Torus. And it’s an aboriginal language, of the Huron First Nation, where the word comes from. I just remembered that you are interviewing me from Canada. The meaning of Toronto in the Huron language is the key to all this: ‘meeting place’. What we call Torus, was called Toronto. Look at the beauty of this, with what clarity, what precision, something above it all taught us all the same. The English language, the Huron language and the Spanish language meet mysteriously in the same word. That word is Torus (Toro).
1:13:57
Toronto, for the Huron Nation, which is where the word comes from, means ‘meeting place’. And the Torus is that meeting place. The meeting place of the world of superior energies with the world of inferior energies. But for that to happen there must be a void. For the New Age, that void is the lack of borders, and all the concepts that separate us.
1:15:18
Yes, exactly! Like trying to achieve all this with such a superficial exercise of 15 minutes per day.
Every time I speak of the Torus, at some point I remember Canada, Toronto and the Huron language; and don’t forget that the Huron is another Shamanic culture. Now, this is so important, that meeting place, called the ‘emtpy mind’, which is what Purusha requires of us … understand it’s an extraordinary logic. Think of it this way: we are made to incarnate with a full mind so that we can learn to empty it. That’s why, incarnation after incarnation, what is measured is whether you transcended the mental limits of each incarnation. That’s the Bardo Thodol.
1:16:07
What is seen in an incarnation is whether you transcended your mental limits, and those mental limits reincarnate with you; you carry your mental body from incarnation to incarnation. That’s why it’s evident, incarnation after incarnation, whatever has changed in the physical and energetic bodies, we make the same mistakes. I made that same mistakes! Making the same mistakes means what? My mental body remained intact. What does that mean? I did not empty my mind. It’s not a bad joke that we incarnate to learn to empty the mind. We incarnate to learn how to imbue matter with awareness by emptying the mind, because wherever we go in the universe, the only way for us not be trapped by the particular limits of that place, is to learn break out of jail, rather than avoid entering.
1:16:56
So it matters little what culture paradigms we incarnate with, incarnation after incarnation we always re-enact the same issues. What does this mean? We need to learn to rid ourselves of mental conditioning. If you don’t achieve this, it doesn’t matter what you change outwardly, you will keep repeating history. If you were a pirate, and as such you were unfair, then as the president of a bank, you are still unfair; and later on as a family man you continue to be unfair. That is the mental conditioning that we are hear to heal ourselves of. And to achieve this, we need to acquire the awareness that what we believe constitutes are mind, is not real. It is full of something that isn’t really us. That, in India, is the path of Namaste, Namesoata, and Namascar.
1:17:56
Nam means ‘to empty’, the negation of something. No, and then I move on to the sacred, but first I must learn to say no. People who say Namaste, Namaste all the time, are not aware they are speaking of a path which begins by emptying ourselves, negating, Nam, to reach the ‘aste’ which is the sacred part. Without emptying ourselves, we can’t reach further. It follows the same logic. Perhaps as a finale or golden brooch to the topic, we should remember that this is so difficult and so advanced that, when Christ saw … (at year’s end I’m going to Mexico to give a seminar on the Occult teachings of Christ, after the Cross; that is, the teachings of Christ continue after the Cross. We can see it, read it, be witness to it, and learn it). When Ch rist reached the moment of the cross, for the West his work is done. However, that’s where his most important work begins; that’s when he begins to speak of these concepts. We know this because both Paul’s letters and the John’s Apocalypse were written after the Cross, and both mention that Christ spoke of this. He spoke of Agape, of Love … that’s where Christ makes Love fashionable. Up until then Christ hardly ever speaks of love.
1:19:15
This is worth to note. And Christ did not speak of love as we understand it, as a feeling. Christ spoke of love in terms of Agape. And what is Agape? Staying ‘ignited’. It’s a state of being, not a feeling. Good. When the time comes for Christ to part company with the disciples, don’t forget the disciples had not learned anything. Two nights before, he was chastising them for falling asleep, when he had asked them to remain awake while he prayed. “Didn’t you learn anything?”
He was angry. Two weeks before the cross, Christ says literally to the disciples (this is always skipped in church): “How much longer will have to endure them? I can’t stand them any longer!”
You can find this in the Bible! This is in the Bible. People don’t read it, but it’s there! So, Christ had understood that the most important part of his mission was after the cross, and he dissatisfied with his teachings to the disciples. When he went to say goodbye to them after the cross, in the last Chapter in John (the most trustworthy of the Gospels) he resorts to this as a last recourse; he doesn’t know what else to say to them, they have not learned anything he has tried to teach them. Two nights before he’s upset with them and chastises them. Now he says (I will tell you first how the Church put it): “Go and preach repentance in my name.” Christ never used the word ‘repentance’. Christ used the word ‘metanoia’. Meta: Mind. Metanoia is what Christ taught. When he saw that no teaching had been successful, he resorts to metanoia. And he says to them: “Go and preach Metanoia in my name”.
1:21:10
What does Metanoia mean? It’s a Gnostic word; Christ was a Gnostic (not A-gnostic). He taught Gnosis. How do we know this? Because John begins his Gospel with a very clear Gnostic poem. Ok. Gnostic Hindu, in that case. Metanoia is taught within Gnosis. What is metanoia? “New mind”. And what is “new mind”? Emptying the mind! Learning to empty the mind. Learn to empty the mind, so he tells them “go and preach metanoia in my name”. He did not teach them meditative techniques. He tells them to ‘go teach metanoia’. “Go and teach repentance”. And he gives them a great Gnostic clue, which is in the Bible, in the Gospel I just mentioned, but anyone who is not initiated misses it: “in my name.”
Metanoia is marked in one’s name. How you’ve seen it in Castaneda, in Matus, in the Toltecs, and in all the initiatory cultures. How do I tell the universe that I’ve made it a goal to change my mind? How do I give the Universe that order? “I commit myself to a journey wherein I will change my mind, I will empty my mind, I will acquire higher goals (Goal = Meta = Mind).” I change my name. “Go and teach repentance in my name”. The church translated it “…in Christ’s name”. No. Metanoia is an exercise, everything in quotes “repentance in my name.” Understand?
When I change my name I’m telling the world, I’m telling the Universe “I’m emptying my mind of who I was.” That void is Metanoia. And it’s Christ’s last teaching because it’s the most elevated.
Of all the things we’ve talked today, following the original question “What makes up a human being”?, we see that all teachings converge in that the human being is that which he manages to make of himself. If he becomes a fragmented series of bodies with separated realities it will depend on his mental conditioning. And to change those mental conditionings is why we have incarnated. Here the Universe - thanks to you, thanks to me, thanks to each of us who achieves it - acquires, while there is matter, an awareness that there are superior forces which interact with the force of matter.
1:23:34
That awareness can't be integrated while matter is isolated from the superior forces, or while the superior forces have no matter at their disposal. And that need for a plane of integration is what causes us to incarnate. And in the New Era, that integration happens so fast, that we need a map, a method. These are the maps, that I showed you earlier. This, which we have codified in 11 steps which teach us to merge our daily lives with superior energies, and all depends on what we do with our mind.
1:24:07
“ta daaaa”
1:24:11
Many thanks, truly. I think we have had an enormous journey.
And that was only one of 10 questions!
Ok, then, we can have another 10 interviews.
1:25:00
Can we change the subject a little bit? Or maybe it’s not really a change… Plasma… what relationship does it have with our sight, with sound…?
1:25:11
We talk about sound, and a sound appears! There you go, it’s very clear. Ok.
1:25:34
See? The word orders the universe. We see this in every interview or conversation all over the world. We start talking about any topic, and when the right mental state is generated it produces in our physical reality the thing of which we speak. That is Magic.
There are three levels of approaching the union of Plasma with sound and sight. First and foremost, the simplest one, the one most accessible to us as Westerners, is the physical level, returning to the topic of bodies.
The Hypophysis (pituitary gland), the “interruptor”, helps create a state wherein I don’t allow mental conditioning to stop me, like when someone has drunk a little too much and is uninhibited. That is activating the Pituitary. The Pituitary gland is made of water, 80% water I believe, so 80% of the gland is water. And water is activated by light and sound. Like, for example, the experiments of Masaru Emoto. Do you know of him?
Plasma today does what? It makes it much easier to order liquid, water, what we want to give form to. If I speak to water, it will take the shape or pattern according to whether my words are harmonic or not. So we go back to speech, to listening, to the word. Very good. But it isn’t only water which generates those patterns; rather light crystals within the water, light photons in the water. That’s why Masaru Emoto was able to photograph them.
Plasmated water, ater with a high content of Plasma, is much more powerful in generating solid matter. When I give water the order, what happens? From the gaseous state - the word, to liquid state, will then generate the solid state. How will it generate solid state? People will drink it… ie, watering the earth, the crops we will eat. This is the Hopi mythology. They teach you how, from a sound the Universe is generated; and that sound is they see as the lightning. Lightning, Thunder, Wind, Water. Earth. You eat what comes from the earth, and it’s all impregnated from the beginning by energies, which are sound and light. It teaches you the 11 steps of Magic; they are the same steps which we learn in the method.
Ok. When water is highly ‘plasmated’, when it has a high content of light, - especially at this time since December 22, 2012, when there is more Plasma every minute - there is more power to bring into form whatever you want.
1:28:43
I drink water. As I drink I impregnate my body. With what? What what I’ve put in the water. This is what we call baptism, food blessing… Why is it that in the Initiation, before eating or drinking, we say something? It comes from the original rituals wherein before we drank we clinked our glasses to create a sound, we toast, and then we say what we want. The toast is an initiatory ritual. What happens when I say what I want? I’m impregnating water with a patter, an order, from the gaseous to the liquid state. Gaseous, Liquid, and then comes Solid. But matter, before becoming solid, was a liquid; before becoming a liquid, it was a gas; and before becoming solid, liquid and gaseous, it was Plasma. Plasma is nature’s Zero State. All original cultures teach us to talk to Plasma, talk to the Sun, talk to the Light, talk to Logos, because Word and Light are the same. Logos translated both as Light and Word. “In the beginning was the Logos”. Merging your Word with Light generates whatever you want. That’s why we talk to LIght, in whatever way. That is, Light as a deity, Light as the Sun for the aborigines. When there is more light, the Pituitary [Hypophysisi] is charged more easily, because the gland is mostly water and is absolutely sensitive to light. The Hypophysis is water, and water is sensitive to light. What is the gland made of? Precisely that. And the gland is what vibrates most easily in us when we speak.
In the centre of the head, in the place between Epiphysis and Hypophysis a Torus is produced, which vibrates according to the words. That’s why we have the use of Mantras in the old ways.
And so, what is the relationship between Plasma, Sound and Light? Precisely that Sound imbues light with a heightened ability to generate the reality you want, when more light has infused the liquid, the water. And there is a conduit provided inside us specifically for that purpose. It’s the famous Third Eye or Hypophysis.
It’s going to be hard to translate this right now but ..
Yes, perhaps, because these are somewhat technical terms…
And you always merge so many visions and knowledge from so many cultures…
I think we had arrived at place of natural thematic closure.
Yes, I think that we will finish that part of the interview there, and we can tag this final part on to the next one
1:31:4
Yes, because what we spoke about today, if you go back, we talked about the WuWei path; bringing things into form using sound, how do we create realities, and Plasma which is the great bridge; techniques which all cultures taught to empty the mind without reducing them to a meditative technique, which is a struggle when we’re just starting off and believe that we can use that [meditation] to achieve what we want. But truly I think what we achieved as the ‘golden clasp’ of the conversation brought us to a strongly conclusive point, and now it’s hard add other topics to that. We’re already full, and can’t take another bite.
1:33:05
We still have left open 3 topics from today for sure, and besides that, whatever interests you have. This is the time when I am trying to openly share all this, so not only can you count on me again, but I am grateful for the opportunity.
We’ll be in touch with Damian for our next meeting.
1:34:57
Please tell him that I am touched. This was not in my plans, but I’m about to present my new book in Buenos Aires at the Book Fair in April, together with two Q’ero priests who are coming specifically for my presentation. If he wants I can share with you some of the video we will take, where I will speak in fact about why this particular teaching causes that effect in people. This teaching as been marked by the Q’eros as the “Pachakutek teaching of the New Era”, that is, the teaching that enables the new era.
I hadn’t planned to talk about this, but as retribution for the kindness he just expressed. So if he would like, after the Book Fair, I will get to you a summary of the filming and we can talk about that. What is special about this particular teaching and how the Q’eros have anointed us with it. directed us to it. The difference of this teaching is that it does not teach loose ideas; it teaches a whole new paradigm, which is exactly what we need to change the era. So I have distilled this in my next book and we can talk about that after I release it during the Book Fair.
1:37:02